"All Rights Reserved" edition hosted on CPDL

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Cdalitz
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"All Rights Reserved" edition hosted on CPDL

Post by Cdalitz »

Dear CPDL admins,

just noticed that the editions by L.D. Veitch, which are hosted on CPDL, bear the notice "All Rights Reserved". This means that these editions may neither be freely copied nor may they freely be used for public performances. Here is an example (see the notice at the bottom of the first page):

http://www2.cpdl.org/wiki/images/5/5f/WOTY_8lammas.pdf

It seems to me that this is in violation of the CPDL copyright policy, which I understand such that editions that may not be used for public performances must be hosted outside the CPDL server.

Does this require clarification?

Chris
CHGiffen
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Re: "All Rights Reserved" edition hosted on CPDL

Post by CHGiffen »

While not attempting to speak for the composer, I do point out here relevant links:

why-free page.

download-music page.

It would appear that, in effect if not in fact, her works are freely available under Creative Commons:
All of the following are available for free download for non-commercial use, under Creative Commons License (Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported).
Charles H. Giffen
President of CPDL and
Manager of ChoralWiki
User pageTalk pageComposer page

Early Choral Music? Zephyrus (I sang 12 seasons 1992-2004 with this group).
choralia
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Re: "All Rights Reserved" edition hosted on CPDL

Post by choralia »

From Wikipedia:
Copyright is a set of exclusive rights granted to the author or creator of an original work, including the right to copy, distribute and adapt the work. Copyright does not protect ideas, only their expression. In most jurisdictions copyright arises upon fixation and does not need to be registered. Copyright owners have the exclusive statutory right to exercise control over copying and other exploitation of the works for a specific period of time, after which the work is said to enter the public domain.
"All rights reserved" means that the author does not intend to relinquish "the exclusive statutory right to exercise control over copying and other exploitation of the works", including the possibility to decide that certain uses are free and others aren't, as foreseen by the selected Creative Commons license. I think this is OK.

Max
Cdalitz
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Re: "All Rights Reserved" edition hosted on CPDL

Post by Cdalitz »

CHGiffen wrote:While not attempting to speak for the composer, I do point out here relevant links:
why-free page.
download-music page.
Oh, thanks for looking this up, I had not seen these notices.

It might be a good idea to synchronize the copyright notices (CPDL already has a tag for CC-BY-NC-SA, I think).
As I somewhat refrain from fiddling with others' works copyrigth notices, maybe we should ask her to get the copyright status of the copies hosted on CPDL in sync with the editions hosted on her website?

Chris
vaarky
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Re: "All Rights Reserved" edition hosted on CPDL

Post by vaarky »

My sense is that the way the composer's pages are currently configured, using the Personal catch-all copyright tag on CPDL, is satsifactory but suboptimal if the editor intends CC-BY-NC-SA. Leaving aside the question of what the editor intends (we should definitely ask her before changing the tag), I wanted to talk more about use of CC tags on CPDL.

I could not find an existing category or tag for CC-BY-NC-SA or other CC flavors of license. I checked the Copyright category which has the useful CC page and also what the page might be called if Personal was changed to cc-by-nc-sa. I'm guessing these haven't been created yet (let me know if I overlooked anything). I had deferred the CC analysis project, and I'm thinking of moving ahead on that with the goal of creating categories for only for the versions that are compatible with CPDL's terms.

Feedback from others?
Cdalitz
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Re: "All Rights Reserved" edition hosted on CPDL

Post by Cdalitz »

vaarky wrote:We should definitely ask her before changing the tag.
Ok, I have just sent her an email to ask.
I could not find an existing category or tag for CC-BY-NC-SA or other CC flavors of license.
There are other flavours like CC-BY-SA or even CC-BY-NC-ND, and there is even a template to refer thereto

Code: Select all

{{CopyCC|Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Germany}}
although this code is hard to figure out, unless you already know already that it exists.
I had deferred the CC analysis project, and I'm thinking of moving ahead on that with the goal of creating categories for only for the versions that are compatible with CPDL's terms.
There is a broad variety of versions on http://www.cpdl.org/wiki/index.php/Chor ... ve_Commons. I wonder whether it is useful to list every localization and every version. It seems to me that it is more important to make clear what the intentions are behind the individual licenses, and the special localizations are presumably not that important.

Concerning the compatibility, I think that the "Non Commercial" part is incompatible with the CPDL license because it does not allow for use in concerts with an entrance fee or a collection afterwards. OTOH, it seems strange to me to support a "Personal" license, but not the somewhat freer CC-NC-SA. It should be noted that even CC-NC-ND is slightly more permissive than "Personal" because it allows for use in a divine service (I think so; some might argue however, that in the case of participation of paid musicians, this becomes a commercial activity).

Chris
choralia
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Re: "All Rights Reserved" edition hosted on CPDL

Post by choralia »

Given the main goals of CPDL as stated on ChoralWiki (see http://www.cpdl.org/wiki/index.php/Help ... l_about%3F), I think that any type of license that allows to freely download a score for personal use is compatible with the CPDL goals. I don't see any problems to accept scores that are released under a form of license (personal, CC, ...) requiring a permission for other uses, such as public performance (regardless an entrance fee is required or not), broadcasting, etc. .

Max
Cdalitz
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Re: "All Rights Reserved" edition hosted on CPDL

Post by Cdalitz »

choralia wrote:Given the main goals of CPDL as stated on ChoralWiki (see http://www.cpdl.org/wiki/index.php/Help ... l_about%3F), I think that any type of license that allows to freely download a score for personal use is compatible with the CPDL goals.
No! This quote makes it clear that all editions hosted on CPDL may be freely copied and used! Edtions hosted outside the CPDL server may be subject to different licensing terms:
(cited from the link given by choralia) wrote:Yes, scores on CPDL are generally available for copying and use by choirs! Some scores which are linked from CPDL, but which actually reside on other affiliated websites, may have further restrictions on use.
Concerning the original question, the composer has writen to me that she had made the editons before she had become aware of the CC licenses, and that she plans to harmonize the licensing terms.

Chris
vaarky
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Re: "All Rights Reserved" edition hosted on CPDL

Post by vaarky »

Thanks, Chris! It would be good to update this composer's license notation to more specifically reflect the full range of permissions she is intending to make available. Did you by any chance let her know the template text to substitute instead of "Personal" that more specifically reflects the particular CC flavor she indicated on her page so she can make the edits herself? That might be helpful info to pass along, or she can of course contact us through these forums or via the addscore address.

I've updated [[ChoralWiki:Creative_Commons]] with a "See also" note to Template:CopyCC so people can find it that way, and I've pasted your example above into the template's discussion page so there's an example handy. Please chime in If you have other ideas for helping people to know about using the CopyCC template so they can better specify their licensing terms.
choralia
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Re: "All Rights Reserved" edition hosted on CPDL

Post by choralia »

Cdalitz wrote:No! This quote makes it clear that all editions hosted on CPDL may be freely copied and used!
That's just the introduction of the paragraph. The actual goals are better detailed then:
The primary goals of CPDL are:

* To make vocal sheet music available for free.
* To create a website for public domain music that includes only legally downloadable scores (we operate under United States law).
* To allow development of a viable collaborative model for sheet music distribution.
* To publish scores that are not otherwise commercially viable.
* To create a website that catalogs a large number of other free sheet music websites.
* To encourage (through the CPDL Bulletin Boards) sharing between lovers of vocal music.
When we (the CPDL managers) wrote the above points, we intentionally highlighted that free downloading in US is the minimum requirement for CPDL hosted scores. I'm pretty sure that this still represents the intentions of the CPDL management. The basic idea is that making a score available, although for free downloading only, is much a better service for the CPDL community than removing a score because certain uses are not free. If you think that there is room for misunderstandings, we may improve the text.

Max
pml
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Re: "All Rights Reserved" edition hosted on CPDL

Post by pml »

Thanks Charles for providing the links to Leanne's web pages.

I'll draw this thread to her attention when I next see her (she’s staying with me over the upcoming holy week) to clarify exactly what is intended. I think without trying to second guess Leanne, all of her pieces allow reasonable re-use pretty much tacet, including copying, performance and (non-commercial) recording, but I think she’s employed the formula of “all rights reserved” to maintain to herself the right to call foul on any publishers or web-merchants who are unduly ripping the work off - like our recent troubles with a certain website that I will not name that were unscrupulously selling scores pilfered from here. In practice, anyone making reasonable use of her compositions will not be infringing her “rights”. Where this might become murky would be if you recorded a mass-market CD resulting in megabucks of profit for some unethical record company executives, which included one of her pieces without attribution, etc. etc.

Probably a “personal” copyright is the appropriate CPDL designation.

Cheers, Philip
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