Help with Stanford's Hymn tune: Engleberg

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johnhenryfowler
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Help with Stanford's Hymn tune: Engleberg

Post by johnhenryfowler » 11 Nov 2007 23:03

I'm working on finishing up the Hymns written by
Charles Villiers Stanford. I need the words to
(assuming they are public domain). Stanford wrote
the hymn tune "Engelberg" in 1904 (corrected).

I need the music to Stanford's tune "Engelberg".
Can anybody able to help ?
Last edited by johnhenryfowler on 17 Nov 2007 16:06, edited 2 times in total.

mjolnir
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Post by mjolnir » 12 Nov 2007 02:15

First, note that the name of the tune is properly spelled "Engelberg". The tune first appeared in the 1904 Edition of Hymns Ancient and Modern, paired with the text, "For all the Saints who from their labors rest". These are not the words Stanford intended for use with Engelberg.

Engelberg is a partially "through composed" setting, using five different accompanimental variations to the melody. I have a version of the original (without words; I don't see that Engelberg will ever unseat Vaughan Williams' "Sine Nomine" as the preferred tune for the original text), and expect in the near future to upload the original tune with all variation in ~.pdf format.

The text, "All praise to thee for thou, O King divine", is copyright, having been written in 1938 with the intention of providing an alternate text for Vaughan Williams "Sine Nomine". Based upon the earliest possible date of initial publication of the text (1938), the text would have become eligible for renewal in 1966, which is after the date when the copyright law was changed in the U.S. to provide for automatic renewal. Therefore the text is copyright in the U.S. until at least 2033. I have not had a chance to verify this, but I believe all of Tucker's copyrights were conveyed to Church Publishing (CPI). I have no particular opinion as to the advisability of contacting CPI about including the words on this site, but I would suspect that nearly all people who would be inclined to use the words but do not already have them in a convenient source, would have, or could easily obtain, permission through OneLicense (www.onelicense.net, similar to, but different from CCLI).

ns

johnhenryfowler
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Post by johnhenryfowler » 12 Nov 2007 16:00

Thanks for the info.

What words would Stanford wanted for Engelberg ? Are these
Lyrics in the Public Domain ?

Is the 1904 lyrics for the tune: "For all the Saints who from their labors rest", currently copyrighted?

mjolnir
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Post by mjolnir » 12 Nov 2007 21:35

I know the tune was first published with "For all the Saints"; I once heard or read that Stanford composed the tune because Vaughan Williams, who was then editor of The English Hymnal would not permit its use in HAM. "For all the Saints" was written by Bishop William Walsham How and published in 1874, so it is in worldwide public domain.

For sake of completeness, the original tune to which FATS was set was Barnby's "Sarum".

ns

RMD
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Post by RMD » 15 Nov 2007 17:44

Just to let you know that Hymns A&M Historical Edition (1909) says: 'THE TUNE (Engelberg) is by Sir Charles V. Stanford, and was written by him for this edition'. It is Hymn No. 220 (Rev. Ed. 437.). Stanford apparently copyrighted the music in 1904, and it appears to have been composed specifically for 'For all the Saints'.
Robin Doveton
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Visit my website
www.doveton-music.de
for folksong arrangements and more!

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