Reorganisation of texts and translations

[bobnotts]

Now that the new wiki functionality is here, I am proposing a reorganisation of the texts and translations system on CPDL.

At the moment, a page is categorised as "Texts-translations" when the text template is applied to it. The translation template does not currently add any category to a page. I would like to separate the current "Texts-translations" category into 2 categories - "Texts" and "Translations". Hopefully it's now obvious where I'm going with this...

Code: Select all

{{Text|Latin}}

outputs

[Latin flag] Latin text

[[Category:Texts]][[Category:Latin texts]]

Code: Select all

{{Translation|English}}

outputs

[English flag] English translation

[[Category:Translations]][[Category:English translations]]

Some of you who check the recent changes regularly will have noticed that I created a new DPL page today which lists all pages which are categorised as works in English and currently without the text added. This is the first of what I hope will be a long sequence of DPL pages which will make it easier for users to find scores with texts in their native language so that they might add the text to those pages. For example, as I am not fluenet in any language but English, it is not useful for me to browse this category as it lists all pages which require the text adding, not just those in English.

Any suggestions for how the texts and translations system at CPDL might be enhanced further would be welcome here. Also, if anyone has any idea why the DPL code leaves a large gap in the first column of the page I cited earlier, I would be grateful if they would shed some light on the matter.

[CHGiffen]

Also, if anyone has any idea why the DPL code leaves a large gap in the first column of the page I cited earlier, I would be grateful if they would shed some light on the matter.

I'm sure that the large gap in the first column occurs because the vertical alignment of the first column is middle (not top). The three columns have the same number of titles, but on the average, the titles in the first column occupy fewer lines (they are shorter titles). I'm not sure how to force the first column to align at the top yet, but I'll check when I can.

Chuck

[carlos]

Rob, you can reduce the layout problem (as well explained by Chuck) if you change it to 2 columns only.

By the way, I'm very glad you decided to improve the text-translations category system, I always wondered why Raf had done it the way it was. Another template that needs to be included in this reorganisation is Language. Currently this template creates a link to category Language_texts even when the page has no text! See for example this work; if someone clicks on "Aramaic" in Language:, one is redirected to a page with no entries! The correct would be if the link pointed to category:Works_in_Aramaic, where that work is listed, as expected. When text is added to that page, only then a link to category:Language_texts would appear.

Another improvement that you'll probably like to cite in the Help pages: Poem extension is now available! It's a very simple extension that saves editors of texts and translations a lot of work. Now instead of:

:Siyahamb' ekukhanyen' kwenkhos',
:Siyahamba, hamba,
:Siyahamb' ekukhanyen' kwen-,
:Khanyen' kwenkhos'.

Or

Siyahamb' ekukhanyen' kwenkhos', <br>
Siyahamba, hamba, <br>
Siyahamb' ekukhanyen' kwen-, <br>
Khanyen' kwenkhos'. <br>

We can simply write:

<poem>
Siyahamb' ekukhanyen' kwenkhos',
Siyahamba, hamba,
Siyahamb' ekukhanyen' kwen-,
Khanyen' kwenkhos'.
</poem>

This is specially useful for long texts!

[CHGiffen]

Grrrrrr ... delay problems again clobbering my attempts to post this message (losing its previous content) ... three times already!!

The two-column format is just as unbalanced as the three column format ... same number of titles in each column, but many more long titles (necessitating more than one line) in the second half of the list.

The <poem> facility is a welcome addition.

Chuck

[carlos]

Chuck, have you tried using your brower's Back button when this happens? In Firefox when we do this the text is preserved. If the site page doesn't load when you click Send because of high traffic or the like, click on Refresh button from time to time until you receive an answer from the site, and your text should then be posted (again, works in Firefox, don't know IE's behaviour).

For me the two-column format looks perfectly balanced, perhaps because my screen resolution is 1280x1024?

[CHGiffen]

If I run in full-screen mode )my resolution is 1280x1024 too), the 2-column display is almost balanced (2nd column has one extra line) ... there are still a few titles that do not display on one line, though.

Some editing done, since I originally referred to Template:Language (which also categorizes in Category:<language> texts, and also in Category:Works in <language>

Okay, now to Rob's proposal. I see nothing wrong at all with changing Template:Translation to add the appropriate categories, Category:Translations and Category:<language> translations.

In principle, I don't disagree with the category split of Texts-translations into two categories. But, since there are so many Text/translations pages (separate from score pages), might it be better simply to leave the categorizing by Template:Text of a page into Category:Texts-translations and Category:<language> texts?

I ask this only as the devil's advocate, for my personal preference is not yet decided, although I am somewhat leaning to Rob's proposal. And if we do indeed deem that Template:Language should categorize in Category:Texts, it might be a good idea to do that incrementally ... ie., have Template:Text categorize both in Category:Texts and in Category:Texts-translations (at least for the time being).

And, as for Template:Language, which categorizes in Category:Works in <language> and in Category:<language> texts, should we elminate the second category (in Category:<language> texts)?

Since this is only a matter of changing the templates Text and Translation, incrementally, we can do this immediately. After all, we are adding functionality to ChoralWiki, not subtracting it or radically modifying it.
To change Template:Language by removing Category:<language> texts is subtractive, and needs concurrence ... although I think it's a good idea.

Chuck

[bobnotts]

I ask this only as the devil's advocate, for my personal preference is not yet decided, although I am somewhat leaning to Rob's proposal. And if we do indeed deem that Template:Language should categorize in Category:Texts, it might be a good idea to do that incrementally ... ie., have Template:Text categorize both in Category:Texts and in Category:Texts-translations (at least for the time being).

I'm not sure what you mean by all of this, Chuck. Why would Template:Language categorize in Category:Texts? Don't you mean Template:Text? I disagree with having any score pages categorized as Category:Texts-translations (as you have probably seen, I have recently changed Template:Text to that effect). Instead, I see Category:Texts-translations as a category which will house various subcategories such as Category:Texts, Category:Translations, Category:English texts, Category:English translations, Category:Latin texts, Category:German texts, Category:German translations, etc.

And, as for Template:Language, which categorizes in Category:Works in <language> and in Category:<language> texts, should we elminate the second category (in Category:<language> texts)?

Template:Language doesn't categorize pages in Category:<language> texts... it just categorizes pages in Category:Works in <language>

Since this is only a matter of changing the templates Text and Translation, incrementally, we can do this immediately. After all, we are adding functionality to ChoralWiki, not subtracting it or radically modifying it.
To change Template:Language by removing Category:<language> texts is subtractive, and needs concurrence ... although I think it's a good idea.

As far as I can tell, this simply isn't the case.

I'm very confused - please would you clarify?

[CHGiffen]

I'm not sure what you mean by all of this, Chuck. Why would Template:Language categorize in Category:Texts? Don't you mean Template:Text?

That was a typo, I meant to type Template:Text for Template:Langauge. But ... up until earlier today (when Carlos changed it), Template:Language did indeed categorize in two categories: '<language> texts', and 'Works in <langauge>".

I disagree with having any score pages categorized as Category:Texts-translations (as you have probably seen, I have recently changed Template:Text to that effect). Instead, I see Category:Texts-translations as a category which will house various subcategories such as Category:Texts, Category:Translations, Category:English texts, Category:English translations, Category:Latin texts, Category:German texts, Category:German translations, etc.

I see your point, and I think I said I tend to agree. However, in addition to the reason I gave previously, (1) I wanted other input, and (2) because it makes the "statistics" for Texts-translations listed on the Main Page rather superfluous ... so I shall remove them (you'll note that after making the change to Template:Translation, I added statistics there for Texts and for Translations ... contemplating that at a future date (which looks like it might be today) the Texts-translations statistics would be suppressed.

Template:Language doesn't categorize pages in Category:<language> texts... it just categorizes pages in Category:Works in <language>

Wrong ... as pointed out above ... up to Carlos's changes today. But a further change to Template:Language needs to be made ... Carlos changed categorization in "<langauage> texts" to "Works in <language>" ... but the latter categorization was already there so now the code redundantly categorizes in the latter category twice. And, yes indeed, removing "<langauge> texts" from Template:Langauge is subtractive, at least if there is no corresponding text supplied. Recall, however, that I did say I think it's a good idea to make the change (even though it is subtractive).

Indeed, Rob, I saw where you were going. I concur. I mistakenly wrote about the Language template instead of the Text template, because of my familiarity with it. I noticed I had done that and missed at least on instance of correcting that in my edits to my previous post. I left comments in about the Langauge template because I thought they were germaine to the discussion. You were mistaken about what the Language template does (or did), which may have also contributed to the confusion. I hope it's cleared up now.

Chuck

[bobnotts]

OK... other input would definitely be useful. I was sure Template:Language didn't categorise pages as "<language> texts"... it never should have done. Anyway, thanks for the clarification.

[CHGiffen]

Template:Language categorised in <language> texts since Philip wrote it in the spring of 2006. In January 2008, I added the categorisation in "Works in <language>".

Edit: Big mistake (by me ): Philip's original template only pointed to Category:<language> texts, so you were right Rob, and I apologize to you and to Carlos (who didn't goof!). When I added the categorisation in "Works in <language>", I didn't change Philip's links ... the original rationale for Philip's links was to point to Category:<language> texts, so that perhaps a different work with the same title might be found (with a translation),

Chuck

[CHGiffen]

I just noticed the September news article that announces Texts-translations passing the 3000 mark ... maybe we should suppress that fact now? Texts is only at 2992.

Chuck

[bobnotts]

Tht'a OK - I'll just add 8 more texts

[carlos]

Also, if anyone has any idea why the DPL code leaves a large gap in the first column of the page I cited earlier, I would be grateful if they would shed some light on the matter.

Hi Rob, I changed the view mode on that page to one similar to a category, see if you like it:

Code: Select all

mode=category
ordermethod=title
titlemaxlength=50 

Parameter titlemaxlength may be decreased, increased or completely eliminated at your will, but it reduces page layout distortion a bit, and just passing the mouse over the abridged titles will show them complete on the browser's status bar, anyway...

Chuck, never mind the confusion about template:Language

[bobnotts]

Yeah, I like it - thanks Carlos! I'll soon create lots of DPL pages in a similar style to that. I also need to create

Category:English translations
Category:French translations
Category:Italian translations
Category:Spanish translations
etc...

[carlos]

Rob, if that's the case, the easiest way would be by creating a template in the form {{TranslationsBody|<language>}}. I will do some tests to see if the DPL code works well inside templates.

Edit: I've just created {{TextRequestsBody|<language>}} and DPL worked fine!
Do you think the template name is clear?